12-10-97

AMERICAN MUSIC: THE VIOLENT FEMMES MAILING LIST currently run by Pat. Wary ************************************************************************** TOUR DATES: (NEW DATES MARKED WITH A **) **Sunday, Dec 21-St. Mark's Church, 2nd Ave and 10th St. NY, NY Performance of Solstice Spirit for Shakuhachi Orchestra by Nyoraku Schlefer. Brian will be one of the flautists. Show starts at 3:05 P.M.; admission is FREE. ************************************************************************** The Quote Of The Day: "I was looking for a project, I could learn french or take over the world, I took over the world..............but nothing changed" -from Machine -Submitted by send your VF quotes to ************************************************************************** ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO IMPROVE THIS LETTER SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO ANY AND ALL CORRESPONDENCE CONCERNING THIS LETTER SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO ************************************************************************** WEB PAGES: Official: http://www.vfemmes.com Unofficial: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mmerry2/femmes.html Guitar: http://www.bucknell.edu/~wtorres/violent_femmes/ TAB DIGEST: The tab digest is give and take; remember to share what you have. ************************************************************************** In Today's Issue: RE: Ages RE: Ages RE: Ages RE: Ages RE: Ages RE: Ages RE: Ages RE: Lyrics Questions..Etc. RE: Lyrics Questions RE: Lyrics Questions RE: Lyrics Questions RE: Lyrics Questions RE: Lyrics Questions RE: Lyrics Questions 100 Issues Introspection That Fuzzy Feeling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Ages ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ wow....I have never felt so young! I'm 14, I was going to see the Femmes when they came to Benedictine University in Illinois but I already had gotten tickets to another concert, but none of that really mattered because my stupid parents grounded me! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Ages ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok. To throw in my list of ages that listen to Femmes music. I'm 17 (18 on the 20th..WOOHOO)., but have been an avid listener since I was at least 15ish. So has my best friend. And a friend who was a year older and a friend who was 2 years younger. My 8 yr old sister has been listening and liking them a lot since she was 7. Also, my 12 and 10 yr old cousins like them. My 45 year old mom listens to the Femmes with me too. So does my 15 yr old bro as well as my 9 yr old bro. So, apparently there's a varied listening age...yeehaw. And, I saw Grosse Pointe Blank AGAIN this weekend and it just was sooo killer (again)!... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Ages ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ hi there! i am a 19 year old female. my sign is cancer and i enjoy long walks on the beach and sunsets in the tundra. give me a call. my number is.... OH WHOOOPS! emly ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Ages ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guess I wasn't signed up for this service when you took the poll. The Femmes are by far my favorite group and I am age 55. I first saw them on a video four years ago which I believe was to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Folk City in NY. They sang Country Death Song. That impressed me enough to buy their newest CD at the time, New Times. Since then, I've bought them all. Members of the group are phenomenal and versatile musicians. Unlike so many groups and individual performers today, their songs do not all sound the same. And, you can understand the lyrics which are simple but relevant. Gordon's voice is particularly good. They are one of the few groups that don't fit a particular musical category. The only category they can be slotted into is GREAT. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Ages ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ About the age thing, there is a strong following of femmes here in Az. of 15 and 16 year olds. Emma ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Ages ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HELLO ALL! I can't help but notice how many teenagers have been responding to the age thing. I thought for sure I was one of the youngest chicks on the mailing list. Now I know I'm not! I am 17 years old and fell head over heels in love with the Femmes when I was 13. The first time I saw them was at the HFStival in D.C. in 1994. Since then I have seen them everytime they have come to the area. I have even been fortunate enough to meet the band, go on their tour bus, and go to their hotel! :p I must say it broke my heart when I heard that they aren't coming for the traditional New Years show. I have every album except for ROCK. I can't find it anywhere ! I think it is now safe to say that I am thankful all that 'true fan' garbage is over with. We should all remember that the purpose of this mailing list is to bring together a diverse group of people who all just happen to have great taste in music! Since we all have that in common I thought I would suggest a few flicks that I thought you all might enjoy.. DoOm GeNeRaTiOn (not recommended for those not comfortable with graphic sex scenes) Rocky Horror Picture Show (hopefully all of you have already seen it) Does anyone else listen to Tuscadero, Mazzy Star or Tori Amos? S M I L E ! xoxo danica xoxo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Ages ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I am 14 years old and I own EVERY VF ALBUM AVAILABLE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!! I'm pissed off that ROCK!!! is only available in Austrailia and New Zealand. I will trade anyone for a cassette copy of ROCK!!!, a copy of any album they want!! I can buy it via mail from the official VF page, but, my parents don't trust the net enough to give their credit card number. Contact me at if you are interested in trading!! Max -Pat. Says: You can always send a check or money order to: Celebrity Merchandise 15030 Ventura Blvd Sherman Oaks, CA 91403 Go to the Merchandise link on the Official Homepage. Somewhere in there is a form you may print up, not only for Credit cards, but for check and MO also. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Lyrics Questions..Etc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I know in Gone Daddy Gone there is a line that comes from an old classic rock song. I don't remember who sings it, but the line goes something like this: " I can tell by the way that you sit and walk, I can tell by the way that you treat your man I could love you baby its a crying shame." Or something along those lines. I actually have never written to you guys but i absolutely love the Femmes and i am so upset that they aren't coming to DC for new years. I have seen them for New years eve ever since they started playing for new years in dc. actually i guess i am kind of glad that they're not playing because i'm not going to be here and i would have missed them. Oh well. Did you know that Guy's daughter's name is Whitney? That's my name! Coincidence? I think not. He also told me that i looked like his ex wife. I don't know if that was a good or bad thing. Anyway, just thought i'd add a little bit of nonsense. Whitney ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Lyrics Questions ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Femmes incorporate a lot of old songs into new ones, usually blues lyrics that are pretty much up for grabs by whoever wants to use them. I've caught a bunch of them, but I can't really remember most of them. Off the top of my head are: From Gone Daddy Gone-- I love by the way you switch your walk, etc, is a blatant example of blues usage (muddy waters, etc) I know that "Nobody ever taught you how to dance like that" is incorporated from an old song, but I forgot which. The other day I heard Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited, and realized that one of the songs, (Ballad of a Thin Man, maybe) has a very similar opening (guitar-wise) to Confessions... sorry if this isn't particularly clear, but i'm harried, harried, harried. j ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Lyrics Questions ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Obviously many songs are poetry or translations of poetry put to music: Hey Nonny, Nonny, (a few songs on New Times). There is also the bible verse on Hallowed Ground. Gone Daddy Gone: Tell by the way that you switch your walk, I can see by the way that you baby talk, I can love you baby till it's a ...... (I've heard it in at least two places: 1) traditional blues song (unknown to me who the artist is) 2) An Allman brothers song ??? Do you really want to hurt me?: Duh!!!! Hey Nonny, Nonny: Outside of being a song found in Shakespere (A midsummer Nights Dream and Hamlet (I think)) The end part of the song (I believe) may link the Rolling Stones' Sympathy For The Devil (ie We are the evil not something else) with some more complex idea about Ophelia's character or the wanton love stuff that characterizes A Midsummer Night's Dream) OR it could've just sounded good to borrow "WOO, WOO" and the guitar riff from the Stones. Several Songs on ROCK!!: There are a lot of vocal (and instrumental) borrowings from the Ramones here. I think "She Went to Germany" is a good example. This is all I can think of for now... Maybe if I look through the CD's I can find more. This is a very good question you ask. If I knew more about The Velvet Underground I find a lot more. Jesse Pat. Says: That Gone Daddy Gone Lyric was from I Just Want To Make Love to You, by Willie Dixon. It was I think written for Muddy Waters, and he did record it, as well as many MANY other people, including Chuck Berry, Etta James, Jeff Beck, Rolling Stones, Foghat... I could go on forever. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Lyrics Questions ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ okay, for vf from other sources, . . . When I was in high school (maybe my senior year I think), 'Hey Nonny Nonny' jumped out of a Shakespeare unit (Much Ado About Nothing), and I was really excited about it being a VF lyric. I know Shakespeare didn't write that part, and we've already covered it in this letter, but it was meant like a synonym for laughter. This always reminds me of an idea about 'Never Tell.' Okay, the beginning is "Hey people, have you heard, some people stand like trees without a word, and what that means is that some people dont talk." OK- I have always wondered whether or not that is a reference to Dante's INFERNO. I cant remember what tier of hell it was, but all the people who committed suicide were confined to hell, turned into trees. According to Dante, people who committed suicide were trying to get attention. Therefore, their punishment in hell was to be trees and never again talk. Sooooo . . . does anyone know if this is what Gorno was alluding to? And, not to start any major thing, but . . .I have never really understood BITS. I recognize that there are undeniable references to masturbation, but what is the real gist of the song? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Lyrics Questions ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Here's a question about lyrics: Can anyone submit lines from VF songs >which have been taken from other songs or sources? well, i don't know if this is where it's taken from, BUT: the song "The Confession" on the classic Laura Nyro album "Eli and the 13th Confession" contains the line "I would love to love you baby." in "Add It Up," the line is "I would love to love you lover." don't know if it's deliberate or not but the Nyro song *does* pre-date "Add It Up" by a decade or more. >Here's another question: Do you think that when Gordon writes 'They said >breakin' up they said it's hard to do' he's referring to the old song >'Breaking Up is Hard to Do' absolutely. no doubt in my mind at all. bec ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Lyrics Questions ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I seem to remember an old camp song that at one point goes "third verse, same as the first, a little bit louder and a whole lot worse," so the Femmes might have gotten the "third verse same as the first" in Prove my Love from that. Pat. Says: That line was in 'Henry VIII', by the Herman's Hermits. Forget the Beatles..forget the Stones; when I was about 5 I wanted to marry Peter Noone! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: Lyrics Questions ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the femmes were on Rock Line a few years ago after the release of New Times. A caller asked Gordon if breakin up was about a specific person. He replied, "Yes, and she knows it, and everyone is happy." i don't know if that answers your question or not. later john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 100 Issues ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I found out about this mailing list about a year ago, and I have been keeping every single one. Yesterday, I received my 100th one and I was a little excited so I thought that I would share this great news with you. I was wondering if any one knew how many issues have been sent in total ever since this mailing list started? When did this mailing list first start? I believe that the first newsletter that I got was December 16, 1996. Maybe we should have a special issues on anniversary of the mailing list. Well I that is it for now. I hope everyone has a great Christmas! -Pat. Says: Rock! was started by Neil Fahey. I joined up March 1, 1996, but according to the Unofficial Homepage, the list started in Late December, 1995, and on January 12, 1996 it became a digest much like you see it today. Sometime in 1996, or early 1997, James Schrader ran the list, and on July 15 of this year I took over. In the beginning, there were only about 6 subscribers. Now we have over 850. I have no idea how many issues have been posted, as I never saved any until this October. If you have saved issues, I think I'd like copies. Just write to me, and we'll arrange it so that I'd send you a couple of floppies, a couple of extra bucks, and you could copy it for me. That is if you use Windows. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Introspection ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Monday at 4 in the morning, I lay in m bed unable to catch any sleep due to the fact my mind was racing! So I popped in a cassette that contained "Hallowed Ground" and "3" albums. What I realized is how each album has a different persona, yet spits out the same meaning. I relate to the Violent Femmes. Like them I was treated like shit in High School. Unlike them, I tried to fit into the normal standards society set. Until last night! Now I realize that Popular Culture is not worth keeping up with. I am going to stop doing things to impress other people and do things because I want to. The only negative aspect of this decision is it narrows the field of a future lifelong companion. But then again, if that person can like me for what I like, then I will have no charades to play. I can be me. So even that negative is a positive. Sorry to pour my "feelings" onto this newletter, but I always enjoy reading about how the Violent Femmes have influenced people's decisions. Thought I would share mine. Hell, I graduate college in May and have no clue what, where, I'll be, but now I know who I'll be. Me! MBlack ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That Fuzzy Feeling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think this is a really great thing! Finding others who love the Femmes as much as I do is always a bonus. I'd love to hear about them in concert if anyone'd be willing to talk about their experiences. (I've lead a sheltered life and although I'm 19, I've never been to any concerts.) I plan on having the Femmes be my first show, so until they come near Richmond, I will wait. =) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~